rosdrise: (mad men - betty is PISSED)
rosdrise ([personal profile] rosdrise) wrote2009-11-13 12:03 pm

You're Beautiful gender issues...

I've been enjoying You're Beautiful since it started. It's a show about a nun-in-training disguising herself to join a boyband. I don't see how it couldn't be funny, especially since it's being penned by the Hong sisters. Of course, I thought FlashForward was going to be brilliant and it just gets more dull every week. I may start watching Vampire Diaries in real time and saving FF for downloads. I'd really like to stick with it through the season but it's not going to be easy.

Anyway, I've seen several people that have taken issue with the character of Mi Nam. That's totally understandable, she's basically a moron. A sweet, adorable moron, but a moron nonetheless. It can be frustrating watching your supposed heroine not be able to tie her own shoes, so to speak. Personally, it hasn't really bothered me, but I can see how it would.

What I do take issue with is the combination of Mi Nam's character and the other big female roles: He Yi, Mi Nam's aunt, and Tae Kyung's mom. On their own, fine. They aren't exactly expertly flushed out characters, but it is just a silly little romcom, so I can deal with that. But the only female character that falls between these two polar opposites is the stylist. I don't even remember her name, so she's not exactly on the screen a lot. What we are left with are two examples of women: the desired and the undesired.

Mi Nam is pretty much the Victorian ideal of a woman: the angel of the house. She's passive, powerless, meek, and self-sacrificing. She heaps all the blame on herself. She is doing a favor for her brother by masquerading as a boy. While it is understandable to feel guilt over lying to those you've grown close to, Mi Nam treats it as a sin. She tries to suppress her feelings for Tae Kyung in order to keep harmony in their little family. All of her actions are focused around pleasing the men in her life.

Then we have He Yi. Who, because she lacks all of the qualities that make Mi Nam so 'good' is labeled as 'bad'. He Yi looks out for herself. She is strong, driven, and will take what she wants. For every instance of Mi Nam sitting back quietly, suffering for her supposed sins, we have He Yi ignoring the feelings of others, and focusing solely on what she desires.

OK, so He Yi is kind of a bitch. I get that, every story has a villain. I don't think it would bother me so much if Mi Nam wasn't such a pinnacle of Victorian virtue. It's such a blatant case of binary issues. He Yi isn't Mi Nam, thus she is evil. The only time people like He Yi is when she is masquerading as a girl with Mi Nam's characteristics. Once they see that is not her real self, she is no longer the angel of the house. She is the 'other' type of woman. The other that society does not want or accept.

In a way, Tae Kyung's mom is kind of a twisted version of the angel of the house. Her entire world revolves around the love she lost. The only time we are allowed to feel sympathy for her is when she is mourning the loss of that love. She only softens when she talks of that man or of his children. But she has not devoted herself fully to her family like she is supposed to (see: Tae Kyung).

This whole thing is like a fairytale come to life. Mi Nam is going to marry the prince and the evil stepmother is going to get put in a barrel covered in nails and rolled down a hill.

See my icon for a show with less cookie cutter versions of women.

[identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 05:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting post.

I think the one problem with He Yi (who I actually find very amusing and root for being on the screen more) or even Tae Kyung's mother is that she is selfish - she wants what she wants and doesn't care if it hurts others in the process. And from my watching Korean dramas, such selfishness is usually seen as the ultimate vice in characters, male or female - which is perhaps unsurprising in a society very built on social harmony. (There are rare dramas which have selfish characters as protagonists - What Happened in Bali comes to mind where all 4 of the main characters are selfish, obsessed and beyond dysfunctional) but it's a rarity to see a "positive" portrayal of that in a fluffy drama. Selfish heroes are also not really loved, Boys Over Flowers notwithstanding - heroes may be grumpy or icy or whatever, but they always end up hardworking and conscientious at the end even if they weren't already - see Goong where Shin is a supercilious icicle but the drama emphasizes over and over that he is dutiful towards his family and does everything required of him by his position.

I don't really think it's gendered in Hong Sisters' work, to portray this selfishness as an ultimate evil - one of the most selfish, awful characters in their work is "the other guy" in Delightful Girl Chunhyang - anything He Yi does is child's play in comparison (but then DGCH featured an incredibly strong and smart heroine, who was not only explicitly smarter than the hero but also very proactive - there are a number of scenes where she took on the traditionally male drama role of hurting/protecting and the hero took on the traditionally passive heroine role of suffering. Actually, that is sort of troubling - each one of Hong Sisters' heroines seems to be less intelligent and more helpless than the previous one. Hmmm).

There are kdramas which have driven career women who are NOT always self-sacrificial or meek as leads, but they are rather a minority (IRIS' women are tough as nails, competent, and with goals of their own, but IRIS is a weird weird drama by Korean standards). Oddly, a lot of period dramas have strong driven female leads (Jumong, Princess Ja Myung Go, Emperor of the Sea, Damo, even Capital Scandal etc) but it's fairly unusual in modern ones. I have seen comments that Jandi from BOF, who was a very dishrag version of Makino, was too strong and scary (!!!). Worlds Within, my favorite kdrama, and one that featured a bevy of strong, ambitious, flawed, selfish in a real way, still awesome women, flopped like a stone and I saw repeated comments as to how dare the heroine not want children or be so pushy or whatever.

I give Hong Sisters props because their writing is good enough that I see why the three guys all like Minam for different convincing reasons even if I find her insipid (the cluelessness is cute for an ep or two and then it gets wearying - do you really want to be together romantically with someone who is 5 years old and useless?) I don't really see a problem with having selflessness presented as a positive virtue and the opposite of evil selfishness - after all, we are supposed to like Tae Kyung best when he is being caring and selfless and ditto for Shinwoo. I just don't find watching a moron particularly compelling.

OK, this ramble was all over the place, sorry.

[identity profile] cranberrysheep.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:08 pm (UTC)(link)
I have no problem with selfishness being portrayed as the ultimate evil. I think in many cases it is so and it only makes sense that it is a characteristic for so many antagonists. My issue is that in He Yi it is teamed up with all the other things that have traditionally been seen as undesirable in a woman. Like say, doing things that displease men.

Whereas, Mi Nam possesses no characteristic that gives the impression she gives two shits about her own well being. If she is ever under the impressio she caused hardship to someone, it crushes her.

It's the complete dichotomy between the two characters that bugs. If there was a little overlap into a grey area for either girl I'd feel better about it.

[identity profile] darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I saw repeated comments as to how dare the heroine not want children or be so pushy or whatever.

This drove me crazy with a YA book I recently read. The heroine was tough and strong and had no interest in marriage or children (especially awesome since she fell in love with a prince; she rejected becoming a princess to be her own person instead). The guy was fine with it, madly in love with her.

Cue me skimming online reviews where readers were just incensed that she didn't "give in" because "he was so nice and understanding." They even had the gall to call it bad character development.

SCREAM.

[identity profile] darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
BABIES ARE A MAN'S RIGHT, OBVIOUSLY.

[identity profile] dangermousie.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 07:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Really? UGH. OK, I love kids and am happy to have one but everyone is different. If she doesn't want to and the person she is with doesn't care? YAY.

In Worlds Within - I absolutely loved how they dealt with the issue - they were dating and she basically told him (the issue came up) that she doesn't want children because it would derail her career (and I love that it wasn't viewed as a horrible thing or made her a horrible person). And he was taken aback to which she told him that if he dares to break up with her over this, she is basically going to tell everyone he's a sexist (or something to that effect) but he had no intention of breaking up with her (near the end they actually barter and hash out details - as in how she can work the most if she does get pregnant or who they will get to watch the kid so she won't have to take maternity leave etc).

And that's the thing - if one party doesn't want kids and the other one does, I am fine with it being presented as a potential relationship-breaker (this lack of compatibility on several important issues was one of many reasons the characters in WW had a painful break-up for a while) but it's not evil! It's not evil to want to have a life outside the home!

[identity profile] scanky-chops.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 05:38 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, how you've put this down makes so much sense. If i tried writing it it would be a lot more rambling lol XD.

Personally i prefer He Yi so much more than Minam because with her interactions with Tae Kyung He Yi has the possibility to change from being that complete bitch she always is. Minam's... still the ditzy girl she always was which the boys all love and but i'd to see something in her change. More awareness, ruthlessness, i dunno. And yeah He Yi's actions ruin things for Minam/Tae Kyung and whatnot but then so do Minam's.

Re: Tae Kyung's mother. Regardless of her lost love, i would have thought he'd have been the type of guy who wouldn have wanted her to love the child she had and being that much of a bitch doesn't warm me to her at all.

(Random question but has the issue of the brother been addressed - is he still healing? And why the hell didn't the office just say he's got Swine Flu or something to cover it over?)

This whole thing is like a fairytale come to life. Mi Nam is going to marry the prince and the evil stepmother is going to get put in a barrel covered in nails and rolled down a hill.

This is why i prefer the original versions of fairytales. Or the PC versions.
Edited 2009-11-13 17:41 (UTC)

[identity profile] cranberrysheep.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I kind of love the little glimpses of humanity that we get from He Yi. I hold out hope that we will see more of those by the end of the show. Then maybe the females roles won't be so white and black.

[identity profile] scanky-chops.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Obviously i've not watched that many kdramas so i can't compare but the ones i've seen (let's ignore BOF here) the females have all been pretty strong. So this is kind of a disappointment on the same level as Mei-chan (again, i was in that for the boys).

I think we'll probably see He Yi turn out to be not so much a bitch towards the end 'cos this is a fairytale and i think the writers have the ability to turn He Yi around (not quite sure about Minam though - although i'd love a Grease style ending 'MINAM?!' 'Tell me about it... stud.'

XD

[identity profile] onmyowndick.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
This x 100. I think a lot of kdramamakers need to get it through their heads that women who look out for themselves can also be nice and sweet. Independent =/= selfish evil bitches. I'm just so sick of these naive, cute dumb heroines who just can't do a thing by themselves and need other people to defend/rescue them. Dramas need more heroines like the ones from BOSS.

[identity profile] cranberrysheep.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:12 pm (UTC)(link)
What are the chances of someone telling Mi Nam to stop being such a dumbass?

But like [livejournal.com profile] dangermousie said above, there are plenty of kdramas that feature strong, independent-minded women. They need to smack some sense into Mi Nam.

And yet, I still find the show pretty darn cute. I only wish the female characters weren't so skewed.

[identity profile] onmyowndick.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Everyone loves her dimwittedness so I guess that will never happen.

That's true but I still think there are way too many dramas where the girls are these pure dumb cute things. And it's not just kdramas. I just wish more dramas featured strong awesome women.

The way Minam's character is written pretty much ruined the drama for me :/

[identity profile] cranberrysheep.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree, but that goes for the rest of the world - especially considering the popularity of Twilight.

[identity profile] onmyowndick.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugh Twilight *shudder* And ita.

[identity profile] darkeyedwolf.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 06:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Dramas need more heroines like the ones from BOSS.

WORD.

[identity profile] scanky-chops.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 07:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I get the feeling that my badass women post would be highly appreciated right now...

*goes back to work in it some more*

[identity profile] onmyowndick.livejournal.com 2009-11-13 07:03 pm (UTC)(link)
oooh i wanna see it!

[identity profile] allthingsgood.livejournal.com 2009-11-14 12:47 am (UTC)(link)
hmm so many things to say.

i think the one thing that has vexed me from the start was how important minam's profession as a nun would play into this. i rambled about this elsewhere but it kind of annoys me that her being a nun justifies in a way that she's pure, sincere and naive to the point of stupidity. crudely put, i think korea likes women who are pure, sincere and let the men think and act for them, which is exactly what taekyung does for minam, except on top of just making the girl lead as such, they can now rationalize it with the fact that minam nun, so there's no question that she has to possess those characteristics.

but on the other hand, i don't think heyi's bad just because she lacks all the "good" characteristics that minam doesn't have (and thus by extension, she's not "good" because she is not an angel or self-sacrificing). i think she is "bad" because she uses those good characteristics and puts them to use in a selfish, harmful way that hurts others.

[identity profile] cranberrysheep.livejournal.com 2009-11-14 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
I agree, but I find the severe lack of any of He Yi's characteristics in Mi Nam very telling. If we were meant to see them as good, then why doesn't our heroine possess them?